➤ You learn to look differently.

➤ It's a different way of looking.

➤ You look through the eyes of someone else...
➤ That's right!

➤ I — I have the feeling that we're very much stuck in the same... looking for solutions within the same... the same problems... as in, we create something that goes wrong in technology, or because of too much administration, and then we try to solve it through even more technology, even more administration!

➤ Those kinds of solutions, yet more administration, yet more technology...

➤ Always in the same way, whereas... learning to look differently, simply... starting somewhere different.

➤ I also see many recurring cycles, as in, we work a lot, we don't have time to take care of the children anymore, so we need daycare, we need a household help, you need to get to work so you need a car, but to pay for a car you need to work even more... These continuous cycles in which people... in which you feel trapped...

➤ And it's just grown over time, this awareness of... come on, people... we always have more and more — stuff, amongst other things — possibilities — and yet ever more and more people who are unhappy, who aren't content, who, who, who say... I mean, who clearly don't... who have too little wellbeing...
➤ Yeah, yeah... So you're looking for a kind of essence, actually?
➤ Yes, yes.
➤ An essence of being?

➤ So then I think actually you need to... break free from that... somehow...

➤ Come on. Which world do you have with you, let me see.