➤ Lately, I've been thinking a lot about how I can really relax. And then it's like, in the city, for example, I'll go for a coffee with a friend on a Saturday morning, and I'm actually already irritated to be sitting there, because then I think, "This is actually not relaxing at all", and I have to pay 5 euros for a coffee...

➤ Relaxing... It's sad that that's become something utopian.
➤ Yes, but that's because of the system, right? This kind of neoliberalism where everyone feels they have to... measure up, and meritocracy, you name it... How long have we been stuck with this, since Thatcher and Reagan, after 40 years there should be little bit of...

➤ Really not knowing what to do with myself when I no longer know... I mean like, "ah, now I'm free, so what do I do now?"
➤ Ah yes, and why is that so difficult, if you... as if you're not allowed to relax...
➤ We've cultivated that reflex. The fact that we feel guilty — I also have that to an extreme degree — if I'm not doing something for half an hour it's like, "I'm slacking", while actually it's of the utmost importance, to have these moments of apparent "empty time"... Because otherwise nothing happens up there, in your head. And even if you're bored, even that is very useful, to learn how to be bored, how to fill your time...
➤ Yes, and not only for artists, but for many, many people... Because the world, everything is already so exhausted, it's often much better to simply do nothing.