➤ But that's the purpose of a utopia, no? The carrot we dangle in front of ourselves, a driving force behind... not just surviving, but existing.
➤ Kind of like a goal you can't reach, but you can still aim for, it's the road towards it that's important, and the goal itself, yeah, that's impossible to reach anyway, because a utopia, by definition, doesn't exist.
➤ Something to...
➤ ... something like that, you mean...
➤ ... something to awaken our hunger, to make it all worthwhile.
➤ Yes, but then why wouldn't those negative things also have a place in a utopia?
➤ You also lose in life.
➤ Winning is easy. Winning is a piece of cake. Simply being the best, you win, and that's that. But losing... That affects you psychologically, then you have to... Yes. I think you learn much more from things going wrong, because when things go well, you don't think about it. If you win, it's like, "yes!" and then the next day it's business as usual. But when you lose...
➤ A utopia of losers!
➤ The revaluation of losing...
➤ ... of being a loser!
➤ That reminds me, when I was in kindergarten, I remember this really well, I think it was in the third year of kindergarten, this really lively memory... We'd been learning about the animal kingdom, the lion and the snake and so on, and if you felt like the lion you could take charge during playtime, and if you felt like the turtle — there was a slide in the classroom, and on top of that slide there was this small, dark shack, and if you felt like the turtle you could hide inside that shack, and I remember I sat in that dark shack almost all the time, alone. And uhm... I think it's interesting, so you have a utopia, but is there also room for the cold, the cool, the dark, where nothing happens... I'm also thinking of burn-out, and that a lot of people are simply exhausted... and that's a kind of place where there is total stillness and stagnation. And in my imagination, that's a very dark place, in the good sense.
➤ That feeling of being carried by the dark... The dark can also carry you, and it brings so much peace. So much.
➤ Yes, isn't there this line... that you need darkness in order to see light?
➤ Yeah, or that the darkness is deepest just before it gets light.
➤ Yes, but it's also a quality in itself.
➤ Exactly. Regardless of whether it gets light...